The revealed scriptures that we are privileged to have access to, clearly teach that ALL things are a COMPOUND. They have a combination of parts / ingredients per se, and MUST need have opposition as well for growth, full comprehension, and completion. Add that application God has for us, as unique & separate individuals, a particularly designed plan for our lives, experiences, tests as well as opportunities to expand and develop as celestial beings. Although the understanding of Grace & Works-has had flux & changed empasis, the properties of eternal laws remain FIXED. IF we seek truth and answers for ourselves in the prescribed ways-humility, sincerity, diligence, patience, with repentance at the fore, our Loving Heavenly Father guides us to fullness of truth and understanding in these issues-especially as they apply to OUR individual lives, challenges, progress process.
We need to keep confidence that God will ALWAYS keep us informed, guided properly and correctly reveal to US as INDIVIDUALS. WE are responsible for praying for a SECOND WITNESS to ANY talk, book, or expressed idea or overview of principles, doctrines. Let us SEEK at the throne properly and HE WILL REVEAL TO us! Love to all.

The D&C describes the telestial kingdom as a saved condition, one doesn't have to do any works to be saved there, given this the LDS scriptural position is consistent with the saved by grace position.

If one wants a higher level of being saved, thats where works comes in.

So there is a difference between LDS and some others, except the LDS people aren't very good at recognizing it, nor is the church very good at teaching what it is.

The examples given in the article are differences in focus or perspective but not in actual content. D&C 19 makes it clear that we must come unto Christ by repentance (works) and then we'll be exalted by Christ's atonement (grace). Works are thus the doorway through which grace comes to us. Some authorities will focus on works. Others will focus on grace, and others will focus on both. They're not in disagreement with each other, just in their focus or perspective to the issue of grace and works.

Through works we become more like Christ. Through works we serve God's children. Through works we meet and overcome the challenges of mortal life. These all prepare us to receive the Atonement. It is the Atonement, however, that actually removes our sins and cleanses us through Christ's blood (grace). D&C 19 makes it clear that if we don't come to Christ via our works, he won't allow his atonement to cleanse us and we will have to suffer ourselves for our sins.

Faith without works is dead. Looks like you need both faith and works.

The scriptures and teachings of our modern-day prophets are clear. We must do the works (repentance) and come unto Christ. Then his grace provides the baseline, and we must continue to work until we have done ALL THAT WE CAN DO, and then we will be exalted. If we do not do all that we can, Christ's grace is not anywhere near sufficient to help us.
Christ suffered for hours and hours in the garden. Do you think you don't need to work for the rest of your life to be worthy of His sacrifice?
Christ's grace is essential, but without the lifetime work that we do, it would be worth nothing to us.

And you thought Calvin was difficult to understand! Try making sense of the Mormon explanations above! What a mess of nonsense, contradiction, and speculation.

Don't look to Mormons for theology at all, let alone a coherent theology! You won't find it there.

Please correct me if I read this wrong, but the article describes works as ordinances. Is that what you read? I always have considered works to be acts of charity etc. I think the sticking point is non Mormon christien denominations believe you cannot earn grace. And only through grace are you saved. Everything else is moot. However if you truly have grace and are saved then naturally good works would follow. Do LDS believe grace follows good works?

The discussions are a tempest in a teapot. We progress by bettering ourselves. This can be achieved by following the teachings of many of the great teachers in history. There is no need to be saved as all the inequalities in one life (and misdeeds) are compensated for in the many lives we live. Adhering to the simple and universal truths of Jesus will further your progression. Getting hung up over grace and works is irrelevant. Tyring to explain things otherwise gets your mind in a tizzy.

Its actually quite plain and simple.

2 Nephi 25:23
"For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children,and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God;for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do."

All men sin and fall short of the glory of god. It is only through the grace of Christ that we may be saved. Without this grace all men would be condemned. To apply the grace that the Savior extends to us we must show, through our works that they are true followers of the Savior.

@Fredd - To clarify a bit, no man has to earn immortality. This is a free gift given to us by Christ through the miracle of his resurrection. If we would return to the presence of God ( what LDS call Eternal Life ) there are certain things, works if you will, that we must do. They include but are not limited to Faith, Hope, Charity, and the ordinances of the gospel, baptism being one of these ordinances.

I am a fundamentally lazy Christian. God knows this about me, and so he knows "after all I can do" equals nothing. I will do nothing. That is why, knowing and loving me as he does, he has saved me "after all I can do" - which is nothing. Have I mentioned I do nothing? My portion of the contribution to my salvation is zip. nada. zilch. zero. the null set. nothing. But God loves me so much, he filled in the other 100% to make me "worthy" of salvation.

The wonderful thing about this infinitely loving God is that he loves me (and other lazy Christians) completely and has completely saved me (us) so we don't have to do anything. (Is there some part of zero you don't understand yet?)

And that wonderful salvation makes it so I don't have to worry about being worthy. God has taken care of that for me. Jesus' "worthiness" was substituted for mine (my worthiness was zero) so that I am saved. Done deal. Nothing more is needed.

So now I am free from the worry of worthiness. And in that freedom, I simply love people and help people. Works don't exist.

Ahh Calvin. Love and helping people is works.

You just don't get it.

To Calvin: I don't know if you are saying works don't amount to anything or being sarcastic that people who don't do works are lazy and of course there works required! Good job. I guess one thing I don't agree with is that baptism and ordinaces are required. Again I'm not Mormon so ordinances naturaly are not required for me. And I don't believe God (if there is one) would turn away anyone who practised basic morals.

works = feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, administering relief to the sick and afflicted, the widows and orphans, etc. This is what both the Bible and Book of Mormon teach, and this is what has always been practiced in The Church of Jesus Christ [WHQ: Monongahela, Pennsylvania]. Works in the Utah LDS church probably also includes so-called temple works-ordinances.

We are saved by Grace. Period.

Why can't people accept this? It makes life a lot easier. You don't have to worry about keeping commandments, doing this, not doing that. You just have to believe. No more commandments. No more guilt. And a lot more fun.

Boy it is evident that there is a lot of philosophy on this blog. Would someone stop spouting off your personal beliefs and start quoting scripture.

Calving for CA you gotta have more than "God knows I'm lazy" What a confession.

Fredd, so there is a difference in someone who practices basic morals and one who doesn't? Does that not infer the need for "good works" ie. basic morals?

Ned, If you consider basic morals good works then yes. And as this is a message board please don't expect too deep of expression. I would think basic morals i.e. don't lie, cheat, steal, murder/assault, treat your fellow man the way you want to be treated, etc are less then good works. Good works are charitable endeavors for no personal gain. I'm no role model, and I'm not holding myself up to be one, but I would assume if you have grace you are performing good works. But I would not assume if you did good works you had grace.

We are saved by grace. That is clear in the scriptures, whether New Testament, Book of Mormon, etc.

The Book of Mormon reveals more. It says that: "deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you". This placing a condition on grace. However, that BOM scripture has "perfection" and "sanctification" as its context, NOT "salvation".

LDS need to keep the context of the scripture of grace in mind when referencing grace. Is it talking about a change like Paul, Alma, and others had? Is it talking about "being saved", "salvation", "exaltation", "perfection", "sanctification"? You will notice, that with each level of "upward" progression grace produces it, but with more conditions on obedience with more upward progression.

This is not confusing at all. It is wonderful, makes perfect sense, and gives incredible insight.

Thank God for the Book of Mormon, and the restored truths that give us so much more understanding.

1 John 2:4

"He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

If you believe in Christ then you must keep his commandments (work) or your profession is false. The "work" that the LDS do is only a demonstration of their belief in Christ. If Christ commanded believers to baptized, then ordinances are also part of required works. Any Christian that believes the bible will understand that a mere statement of belief falls short of being a true Christian or else the Pharisees would have locked up salvation long ago.

For true Christians, there are no such thing as "works". Period. "lest any should boast".

to previous anonymous . . .

You mean for true PROTESTANTS there are no such thing as "works".

"If you love me, keep my commandments."

Gotta love the take by these "Grace" fanatics. If Grace is all it takes, then the Savior truly did waste his time in his sermon on the Mount and the many many other good "Works" that he did. By the way, I don't think he was instrumental in calling for the Council of Nicea either.

You just don't get it.

The fact that you don't get it is evident in your comments.

Which proves you are NOT saved because you still try to "boast" and save yourselves.

Come back when you get it.

Calvin,

Very well written. I hadn't thought of it like that before. It makes sense. thanks.