Reader comments: Senator irked school funding not snapped up
15 comments | Read story
Reprehensible | 1:29 a.m. Aug. 22, 2008
The education establishment and its lemming lackeys complain that Utah legislators don't care about education. The Legislature put up the money and said "tell us how you plan to fairly distribute the money to the teachers." And some districts FAILED. School districts have huge bureaucracies, and yet they can't find a person to draft a plan so the teachers get money? How about HR? How about the superintendant? How about someone that can type? Teachers are getting the shaft, and the only people who will be blamed will be the Legislature who put the money on the table. UEA will blame the people who appropriated the money, when it's their pals in bloated admin positions that dropped the ball. Get with it! The teachers need the money, and the public wants the money--already authorized--to go where it is intended to help.
Bob G | 4:26 a.m. Aug. 22, 2008
Most of the time these "free" funds have strings attached that would cost more to apply for than they would get and this looks like one of those cases. This representative is out of line and his reactions are out of line. There is no such thing as "free" funds as he puts it and has failed to give more detailed requirements to get these "free" funds and how much they would get. The per pupil figure quoted and the $20 million spread across the nation is a maximum and probably unrealistic. Sounds like the representative is more politically motivated with this articles report.
Anonymous | 8:47 a.m. Aug. 22, 2008
Stop treating the teachers like little children.
They say, "jump through all these hoops and we will give you a $200 bonus".
If you have the money to hire more teachers, just spend it without the extra paper work and hoops.
Seriously how can the legislators think this was going to sound good to anyone?
It just makes the legislators look bad and shows that they have been holding out $20,000,000 from our teachers.
Any teacher that will go into a junior high class should be given all the money we can afford to give them.
They say, "jump through all these hoops and we will give you a $200 bonus".
If you have the money to hire more teachers, just spend it without the extra paper work and hoops.
Seriously how can the legislators think this was going to sound good to anyone?
It just makes the legislators look bad and shows that they have been holding out $20,000,000 from our teachers.
Any teacher that will go into a junior high class should be given all the money we can afford to give them.
Comments continue below
Anonymous | 8:50 a.m. Aug. 22, 2008
Republican plan for education in Utah = get teachers mad enough to quit and find another job.
Stop holding a carrot out to the teachers and treat/pay them like professionals.
It feels like a mom trying to bribe her kids to do a job.
Teachers aren't little kids. They are professionals with college degrees. They shape the future. Unfortunately our legislature can't see that.
Stop holding a carrot out to the teachers and treat/pay them like professionals.
It feels like a mom trying to bribe her kids to do a job.
Teachers aren't little kids. They are professionals with college degrees. They shape the future. Unfortunately our legislature can't see that.
educrat | 9:44 a.m. Aug. 22, 2008
I get the same feeling whenever I go fishing Howard. How dare those fish turn away this free juicy worm!
Howard Stephenson's indignation against education should disqualify him from being on our State's education committee. However, that is exactly where they put him--the place where he could do the most harm to the group he despises the most. He chooses to cut the IB program, fund computer software for Preschoolers, not fund for earthquake safety check ups for school buildings and even got away with cutting overall funding to Utah schools last year. He will still be dutifully voted in on his 'pro-education' record because people actually believe he is doing what is right by education.
The real reason many didn't go for the 'free handout' was a fear out of whether or not those funds would exist in the future and whether strings would be attached that would be worse than comparing two capable teachers teaching different subjects to students.
Howard Stephenson's indignation against education should disqualify him from being on our State's education committee. However, that is exactly where they put him--the place where he could do the most harm to the group he despises the most. He chooses to cut the IB program, fund computer software for Preschoolers, not fund for earthquake safety check ups for school buildings and even got away with cutting overall funding to Utah schools last year. He will still be dutifully voted in on his 'pro-education' record because people actually believe he is doing what is right by education.
The real reason many didn't go for the 'free handout' was a fear out of whether or not those funds would exist in the future and whether strings would be attached that would be worse than comparing two capable teachers teaching different subjects to students.
Fred | 10:17 a.m. Aug. 22, 2008
Howard and his buddies should have given each teacher one of his free Jazz tickets that he gets for being and upstanding non-influenced legislator. The face value on that Jazz ticket will be worth more than the employee will actually get, because that 20 million is not only for teachers, it is for all district employees. Don't get me wrong, every little bit helps, but by the time this trickles down it will only be a little bit.
Anonymous | 11:28 a.m. Aug. 22, 2008
So I teach 230 students in my 7 period day. At $36.34 per pupil (as quoted in the story) that should come out to $8,358.20. Oh but wait I only teach them 1/7 of the time so I should only get $1,194. Oh but wait I have to follow the district plan which is offering me $200 to jump through a huge series of hoops.
Wow suddenly that money isn't worth the time and paper work.
I guess I better finish my lunch and get back to what I really am here for....the kids.
I feel like a little kid that is begging for chore money from my mommy.
Was that the intention?
Wow suddenly that money isn't worth the time and paper work.
I guess I better finish my lunch and get back to what I really am here for....the kids.
I feel like a little kid that is begging for chore money from my mommy.
Was that the intention?
a husband | 11:54 a.m. Aug. 22, 2008
My comments from yesterday on this:
Sometimes the extra incentives aren't worth it.
I don't know the specifics of this program. However, some of what I've seen as a teacher's husband: A few years ago there was a big rush to get web sites up for all the schools. My wife has some experience and they asked her to: 1-build a complete web site for the school, 2-build a page for each teacher at the school, 3-teach all the teachers at the school how to update their web pages, 4-provide support to all the teachers as they update their pages throughout the year, and 5-update the school's site every week during the school year. For this she would receive $200. She told them politely it wasn't worth it.
If a school must create new measurements, train teachers, gather the data, devote a secretary to formatting the data and reporting it to the state for a few thousand dollars, it often isn't worth the school's time. That time could be spent actually educating.
P.S. My wife starts teaching 2nd grade Monday with 34 fresh faced 2nd graders in her class.
Sometimes the extra incentives aren't worth it.
I don't know the specifics of this program. However, some of what I've seen as a teacher's husband: A few years ago there was a big rush to get web sites up for all the schools. My wife has some experience and they asked her to: 1-build a complete web site for the school, 2-build a page for each teacher at the school, 3-teach all the teachers at the school how to update their web pages, 4-provide support to all the teachers as they update their pages throughout the year, and 5-update the school's site every week during the school year. For this she would receive $200. She told them politely it wasn't worth it.
If a school must create new measurements, train teachers, gather the data, devote a secretary to formatting the data and reporting it to the state for a few thousand dollars, it often isn't worth the school's time. That time could be spent actually educating.
P.S. My wife starts teaching 2nd grade Monday with 34 fresh faced 2nd graders in her class.
RE: "Intention" | 12:08 p.m. Aug. 22, 2008
The intention is to further break the back of the UEA. Anything that the conservative legislators can do to take any salary negotiations out of association hands and put it in their own they are doing. Look how they have allocated money to education over the past two years. Instead of putting it onto the WPU (where it can be negotiated), they have done "block granting" ($2,500 and $1,700 per teacher) that makes it very difficult for association negotiating teams to do anything with.
Now, they have the teachers jumping through hoops to get to performance pay.
It's actually quite brilliant on their part and is being very effective in its unstated purpose. UEA membership continues to decline each year.
Now, they have the teachers jumping through hoops to get to performance pay.
It's actually quite brilliant on their part and is being very effective in its unstated purpose. UEA membership continues to decline each year.
Non UEA teacher | 12:35 p.m. Aug. 22, 2008
As a non uea teacher I love the way they have given us money the last two years.
It is true that often when it goes to the WPU, the district will negotiate with the local association to the point that teachers never see a dime.
I've received a bigger raise the last two years than in the previous ten.
This performance pay is just garbage however. It is a ridiculous amount of paperwork and time for a small amount of money.
The legislature is just going to tick everyone off with this one. Teachers, administrators, the public in general.
It is true that often when it goes to the WPU, the district will negotiate with the local association to the point that teachers never see a dime.
I've received a bigger raise the last two years than in the previous ten.
This performance pay is just garbage however. It is a ridiculous amount of paperwork and time for a small amount of money.
The legislature is just going to tick everyone off with this one. Teachers, administrators, the public in general.
Anonymous | 4:06 p.m. Aug. 22, 2008
STOP HOLDING OUT!!!!
WE CAN'T GET ENOUGH TEACHERS TO FILL THE CLASSROOMS AND THEY ARE HOLDING OUT $20,000,000!!!!?????
ENOUGH ALREADY !!!
PAY THE TEACHERS A DECENT SALARY AND STOP MAKING THEM BEG TO EARN A LIVING !!!!
WE CAN'T GET ENOUGH TEACHERS TO FILL THE CLASSROOMS AND THEY ARE HOLDING OUT $20,000,000!!!!?????
ENOUGH ALREADY !!!
PAY THE TEACHERS A DECENT SALARY AND STOP MAKING THEM BEG TO EARN A LIVING !!!!
I hate it | 4:49 p.m. Aug. 22, 2008
I hate how the legislature has funded education over the past two years. By putting the money into the WPU, a percentage raise is added to the base salary. Therefore, the first year teacher and the 30 year teacher both get the same percentage.
With the "block grants" of money, the first year teachers have gained while the veteran teachers have really lost out. For example, adding $2,500 a year to a teacher making $30,000 is quite a nice raise. Adding that same amount to a teacher making $45,000 a year really doesn't even keep up with inflation!
Personally (and I will be the first to admit very selfishly), being a veteran teacher, my salary has really taken a hit over the past two years with this $2,500 and $1,700 raise nonsense. I will also be the first to admit that most teachers are too stupid to do the math and figure exactly what this block granting of money means to their financial futures. The simply look at the lump sum of money and think they are getting ahead when they are probably (in the long run) getting further behind.
With the "block grants" of money, the first year teachers have gained while the veteran teachers have really lost out. For example, adding $2,500 a year to a teacher making $30,000 is quite a nice raise. Adding that same amount to a teacher making $45,000 a year really doesn't even keep up with inflation!
Personally (and I will be the first to admit very selfishly), being a veteran teacher, my salary has really taken a hit over the past two years with this $2,500 and $1,700 raise nonsense. I will also be the first to admit that most teachers are too stupid to do the math and figure exactly what this block granting of money means to their financial futures. The simply look at the lump sum of money and think they are getting ahead when they are probably (in the long run) getting further behind.
QOTU | 9:29 p.m. Aug. 22, 2008
Sen. Stephenson and his cronies are convinced that teachers are holding out on their best teaching and are just waiting for the right "carrot" to finally start doing their best teaching. This is yet another example of how deluded he and other enemies of public education are.
The complete lack of enthusiasm for his performance pay plan will be used by him in the future as an example of how schools supposedly were offered millions of dollars yet "refused" to take it. Stop all the cute antics already and FUND the schools, darn it!
The complete lack of enthusiasm for his performance pay plan will be used by him in the future as an example of how schools supposedly were offered millions of dollars yet "refused" to take it. Stop all the cute antics already and FUND the schools, darn it!
To I hate it | 9:32 p.m. Aug. 22, 2008
So you are saying you would rather have it go to the WPU and have the local association negotiate it away?
I saw NO RAISE the previous 3 years to the block grants.
I'll take it.
Besides the beginning teachers need it a lot more than I do.
I'm doing fine on my $50,000 a year but they can't make it on $28,000.
By the way I can do the math. My calculus class shows me how.
I saw NO RAISE the previous 3 years to the block grants.
I'll take it.
Besides the beginning teachers need it a lot more than I do.
I'm doing fine on my $50,000 a year but they can't make it on $28,000.
By the way I can do the math. My calculus class shows me how.
Science Teacher | 2:28 p.m. Aug. 23, 2008
I'll gladly take another block grant over WPU weighted raises. The point was to make an incentive to keep new teachers, not reward veteran teachers.
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