What progress? As a straight woman whose been married for 40+ years I can't think of a more regressive, intolerant, self-defeating position than the LDS has taken. And I have to laugh at people who think their marriages are challenged by same sex marriages.

The LDS is responsible for a lot of suicides, broken families and confused children whose fathers had to admit they couldn't live a lie even for eternal rewards.

Prop 8 in CA will go down even with the church practicing spiritual extortion.

If the LDS church were to stay out of my bedroom and find something of interest in their own, there would be no need for any of these activities in regards to ones sexuality.. or lack thereof. Please, make sure your house is in order, before making judgement upon the homes of others, wether it be in the name of your GOD or any other diety one chooses to utilize, in order to place yourself above that of the masses.

True doctrine is true doctrine no matter how you spin it. I find it very telling that the church is blamed or somehow responsible for the actions of individuals. Where is the personal accountability?

I am pretty sure the church has stayed out of your bedroom. If you are not a member of the church why does it's beleifs bother you so much. I doubt the LDS church has been knocking on your door wondering your sexual preference. Why does the rest of the world beleive that because the LDS church councils it's members on a policy of the church's doctrine they feel it is some personal insult to them?

I don't care what the religion, color, or who is gay. But I do care and I am sick to death of having gay everything crammed in my face. People are free to do whatever they want. They are not free to tell me I have to accept their life style. They are not free to tell me what a horrible person I am because I don't think their life style is wonderful. I don't see the need to parade my sexual preferences to the world via headlines and media in general. And I do not see the need for gays to parade their lfe style to the world. Of course if you are trying to justify your actions, you might see that need.

If you are LDS then you know that our doctrine comes from God and Jesus Christ. NOT from our earthly brethren.
It's not going to change on an earthly level if it doesn't come from Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ.

The LDS Church is not going to change God's law just because someone wants to sin & not feel guilty.I know of a certain church here in my area that beleives that if you're saved you can do anything you want, even murder & you don't have to repent .You're still saved no matter what you do.I know this as a fact because he came by my house last week & told me that.It's no wonder they have so many members as they can sin all they want & not feel guilty.Thank God for the LDS Church & their high standards.

In response to Carol... straight people parade their 'lifestyle' to the world all day everyday. The Church here in California needs to back off of the Proposition 8 campaign. Same sex marriage does nothing, I repeat NOTHING, to straight marriage. If anything Same sex marriage might lift the state out of this economic slump... And to another poster... people are not complaining that the Church is counseling its own members to NOT support same sex marriage, people are complaing that the Church is out in public--and yes going door to door, trying to influence others opinions on the subject. If people want the Church's opinion, then they can attend Church--otherwise back off!

After reading the pamphelt "God Loveth His Children", I realized that the Church does understand that people have problems with same gender attraction. I felt releaved because the Church does understand that people do have those feelings. But because of the 1995 Proclomation to the World on the Famly, marriage will always be defined as between one man and one woman. If it means that I have to wait for a number of years before I become married, then I know that it will be worth it. I know that God does love His children, but I know that He wants to see them attain the highest amount of happiness. Which can only be found in marriage as the Church has defined. I understand that feelings of same gender attraction , or if you want to call it homosexuality, can become unbearale. That is where the miracle of prayer comes in. Because many times I have found solance in the fact that God does give me steingth to continue on my path towards Him.

The label of "gay" IS NOT scientific. It's political, and it's politics based on the philosophy that demands the "self above all else."

There is no doubt that some percentage of the population has same sex attraction, but the science is so politicized that nobody even knows what that percentage is. Studies vary from 5% to 40% because the data collection and analysis is politicized.

No kid should ever be made to believe that having a same sex attraction makes them "gay." Our evolutionary nature is to procreate. The politics of "gay"-ness are an evolutionary dead end.

Maybe active LDS like me that thinks the Church is out of step on the gay issue should hold tithing for a month and send it to the pro-marrage groups in Cailfornia. Then send a reciept to the Bishop in leau of tithing. It takes time after all we were 15 years behind in racial issues in the 60's!

Those appealing to the Church to back off its opposition to gay marriage are missing one very important consideration: legalized adoption by same-sex couples is the inescapable follow-on to legalized gay marriage. Nature requires both father and mother to conceive a child. It shouldn't surprise us, then, that study after study shows the significant advantages in life to a child reared in a mother/father home.

Now, everyone recognizes that there are situations where divorce or death of a parent requires a single parent to raise a child. Most are doing an admirable job and deserve our support and respect. But given the preponderance of research supporting a mother/father home, how could a church or a government entity voluntarily disadvantage an entire class of children by supporting same-sex marriage?

Proponents of same-sex marriage intone about the inequality and how they deserve the rights, comfort and security of a "real" marriage. After all, shouldn't they have the right to choose? Hmmm...what about the child's right to a mother/father home? Who's looking out for them?

The LDS Church has never wavered on this important right to which each child is entitled, as expressed in the Proclamation on the Family. Neither should we.

Sounds like a great idea! That way the bishops will know how the loonies are....

*snip*
While the church maintains that sex with someone of the same gender is a sin, "the core being of gay or lesbian is no longer a sin in and of itself," according to recent statements by church leaders, he said.
*snip*

Marriage gives legal and social sanction to a sexual relationship. How could the Church NOT oppose legal and social sanction for gay sex?

Society and the Church tolerate all sorts of things we wish didn't happen. But we provide positive sanctions through law for things that society wishes to promote. And we provide negative sanctions for things society wishes to discourage.

The Church and its members can tolerate, love, and accept all kinds of situations and people. In fact, as Church members we must. It is how we follow the Savior. But we cannot positively sanction through society's laws what is sin.

People who think the LDS church can make no mistake on this issue would do well consider the fact that the LDS church used to council gay men just to marry. This resulted in numerious marriages where women were stuck in a marriage where they couldn't be appreciated or loved.

People everywhere LDS included would do well to learn to reason things out for themselves. Learn to trust your instincts. There is a reason why LDS are the people most suseptible to being scammed. They trust to much in authority figures but not enough in reason or the still small voice within us all.

Every earthly organization and person makes mistakes, but when a person places to much trust in something they sense inwardly is wrong, this damages the ability to reason and persieve truth.

As a Utahn by birth I'm happy to find myself now in California, where my wife and I will be able to campaign and vote against gay marriage. I can't imagine why anyone would ever think that a gay relationship would be natural or normal. I for one certainly haven't come to the conclusion that "the core being of gay or lesbian is no longer a sin in and of itself." Actually I don't think there is such thing as being gay. Sad that one would define his/her entire persona by some inappropriate physical attraction that they have allowed to be planted and have subsequently cultivated.

Don't Loose wrote: "when a person places to much trust in something they sense inwardly is wrong, this damages the ability to reason and persieve truth."

What about those of us who sense inwardly that acting on same-sex attraction is wrong? Wouldn't that damage our ability to reason and perceive truth?

(Just askin'....)

" Why does the rest of the world beleive that because the LDS church councils it's members on a policy of the church's doctrine they feel it is some personal insult to them?"

Because the church follows that up by throwing itself into the Constitutions of other states, thereby, inserting itself into every bedroom in the state. What's more they are personally reviewing the contributions that LDS families make to pro-Prop 8 projects even to the extent of specifying what the 3-, 4- and 5-figures amounts should be.

"The LDS Church is not going to change God's law just because someone wants to sin & not feel guilty."

Would you mind listing the "saints" who don't sin? I don't expect to see even the prophets on it -- and if you say there are any, I'm going to accuse you of lying. So why get your panties in a twist about one particular sin. ...unless it's for the moral superiority of being able to point your fingers and declare someone else beneath you. Shame!

Gay people so far as I know didn't ask to be this way. In the Desnews several months ago was a story about a Gay LDS man who wanted to be obedient and married a woman and told her up front he was gay. The may in the story said he has been attracted to men ever since he can remember.

If a person is Gay, it leads to a hollow and unfulfilled life to not live the lifestyle. No different than you ( I presume you are straight?) not being with a person of the opposite sex for your entire life. Can you imagine the pain that would cause you?

My question to you is this, is it right to life a live, your whole entire life that leaves you unfulfilled and unhappy?

I am not gay, I am very hetro-sexual. I feel sorry for people who are gay, they are made by society to have guilt for doing the only thing they can do that would make them happy.

Face it God didn't make us all the same. Some people are Gay.

to re:Ace Ventura.

A voice of reason. Calm , thoughtful, respectful and understanding reason. Even your "I feel sorry for people who are gay" comes off not as condescending, but from the heart of a truly good person. I wish you joy and happiness always. May you always treasure your insights into the human heart.

I demand more recognition for left-handed bald Mormons! It's all about me! MEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEEEEEEEEEE!

Is there more than one Anonymous writing here?
One claims to be an active LDS woman and expresses sympathetic opinions and another - says he's a man -seems to be on the opposite side.

In the sermon on the mount, both in the New Testament and the Book of Mormon, Jesus says that women who are put away by their husbands (divorced) are not to re-marry.

Not many people I know if their daughter were abandoned by her husband would tell her to live a life of aloneness and unfulfillment and never re-marry. Nor are people willing to do this themselves.

While most people are perfectly willing to ignore scripture when it impacts their own life so directly and in a devistating way. Yet they point the finger of scorn at people who don't live other parts of the scripture that affect other people and not themselves.

See anything wrong here?

I remember a time when the word Gay, meant that some one was happy, not associated with same gender issues. To justice now...everyone in this world is born right handed....only the very gifted over come it!!!!!!!!

Especially Mormon Gays and Lesbians: One sure way to marginalize your own selves it to take up with Sunstone. There is a better way.
If you want recognition, live the Gospel, keep your covenants and you will have all the possible positive recognition there is, in this world and the next.

I am dumbfounded what comments are included and what it is excluded by the newspaper editors.

"Those appealing to the Church to back off its opposition to gay marriage are missing one very important consideration: legalized adoption by same-sex couples is the inescapable follow-on to legalized gay marriage. "

Join the 21st century, Lowell. Gay couples have been doing this for at least 2 decades now. And it's worked out very well for children who, otherwise, wouldn't have had homes. Many of the children that gay couples adopt are older or have special needs. And they can thank the LDS among other for that.

Doubt you'll make many converts in that generation.

Gay people make excellent caring parents. And there are many extended gay families that cooperate to make sure kids get both male and female influences. But it's sad that the kids don't have the security of knowing that their parents can get married.

News flash to LDS members: the Church no longer considers homosexuality to be a "chosen" lifestyle, but rather a condition that people are born with. In fact, one can actually come out of the closet as a homosexual at BYU, if one at the some time commits to not engaging in homosexual sexual activities.

This is definitely a change of course. Boyd K. Packer, in the pamphlet published in the late 1970s called "For the Young Men of the Church" that was once distributed to wards, stated very clearly that the idea that homosexuality was an inborn orientation was absolutely false. The church no longer preaches this.

I'm not trying to "stick this in anybody's face," I'm just saying that the church has shifted in its attitudes, so don't be so dogmatic in your insistence that it won't shift further.

It strengthens my testimony, it doesn't weaken it, when the Brethren receive new light and knowledge and have the courage to act upon it.

On the other hand, if tomorrow the Brethren announced a change in policy that made greater accomodations for homosexuals, would your testimony waver or would you rejoice?

Intolerance and the perfidy to use laws to enshrine discrimination. Reason enough never to have a Mormon President!

Before I moved back to Utah I became friends with a coworker who was gay and in a commited relationship with his partner. They adopted a child that had been born into an at-risk, unstable home. They have been foster parents to other children.

They are wonderful, caring parents. Infinitely more loving and responsible than many of the straight dysfunctional parents I've known.

They've had us in their home on several occasions. They are kind and generous people. I've explained to my young children, in simple terms, the lifestyle that those friends have chosen, and how our family's chosen lifestyle (as devout LDS) is different. And guess what? My kids didn't freak out! My traditional marriage isn't threatened! My kids aren't marching in the Pride parade! All my kids see is: these two men love each other, and decided to adopt a little boy because his mother was addicted to drugs and couldn't take care of him. And they take really good care of him.

Please tell me how to explain to my children how this is a bad thing.

to re Ace Ventura | 3:17 p.m.
I'm not sure what your "reply" has to do with my post. I was merely pointing out to Don't Loose that we all need to follow our inner compasses. If mine tells me that acting on same-sex attraction is not right, I need to be true to that. In fact, isn't that the real test of life? Each of us has tendencies that given in to would wreck our life. We don't all have the same tendencies, but if we are honest we each have something of that magnitude with which we struggle.

Happiness is derived, not from submitting to those tendencies that our inner self tells us to avoid, but from rising above those tendencies. In that regard, none of us are all that different from the other. Not that we share the same challenges in life, but that we share the opportunity to rise above OUR set and achieve true happiness. Gazing across the fence to either judge another for failure to overcome, or to long for someone else's set of "easy" challenges doesn't produce much joy.

As a mom, I just want to thank Mr. Steele for his comments. Well said. Children need a stable, loving home with a father and a mother. Every research points to that. The community (including churches and other groups) needs to surround those who because of death or divorce find themselves raising children alone. Do we really want to take away a mommy or a daddy in more ways now? Making homosexual relationships "like" marriages will not make them feel more validated. I don't come to these views offhand, I have family and friends who I love dearly who face life as gay. I love them and wish them happiness. We have talked at length about these issues and they agree with me that they were glad to be raised by a mom and a dad.

News Flash to Grimble: Show me issued remarks from the Prophet stating that "homosexuality is not a "chosen" lifestyle, but rather a condition that people are born with. I don't mean hyperbole and conjecture based on some members that have "come out", rather, I mean actual revelation stating your opinion as fact. Newsflash #2: There isn't such a revelation. True it is that there have been talks and writings in the church magazines that we should be more accepting and not hate those that struggle with homosexuality,(something I wholly agree with, as with all sin, as we are all sinners) but to imply that means the brethren have changed their stance to match the latest pop-culture ideals is a massive stretch. If I were to go out on a drunken binge, I could very well expect God to say it was OK. It's the same thing and people in the church are struggling with a lot more than just homosexuality--and we are expected to learn to control our passions, appetites, etc--regardless of if it's difficult for us or not.

The entrance into the LDS Church, and the road therein, is the same for all: through repetance from sin.

Can we imagine this news story, "While many adulterous Mormons acknowledge that progress has been made in recent years with top LDS Church leadership addressing their concerns, there is yet progress to be made, says one representative of a group that had hoped to meet with leadership this week."

The homosexual leader misstated the LDS Church position. The LDS Church does *not* teach that "being homosexual is not a sin", it teaches that having temptations - be they of any source -- are not sins. However, acting on those temptations in thought or deed *are* sins. Thus, if a person says they are "a homosexual", they are stating, in effect, they dwell and act on those temptations, therefore they sin.

What we see now from Affirmation is the language of victimhood accompanied by made up satistics in a dishonest ploy to sway public opinion.

I have an idea: Affirmation leaders try this: repent of your sins, and come unto Christ, and have your sins blotted out.

Maybe it's just me, but a lot of commenters have either ignored the main point at the top of this article or missed it altogether.

Affirmation is concerned about the EXCESSES of a number of church members on this issue. Throwing a child out of your house because he/she discloses feelings of same-sex attraction? Labeling transgressors as "perverts" without trying to understand them as people? Yanking out the rug from underneath them, so that suicide suddenly seems like their only option?

I don't know how widespread such LDS reactions are to having a gay/bisexual family member, but anytime they happen, it's too much. Such reactions also testify that the people involved do NOT love as Christ loved.

I have a gay cousin and bisexual friend, yet still am active LDS and oppose same-sex marriage. That's the right cause to support on a SOCIAL level. BUT on an INDIVIDUAL level, we MUST support and love the real-life people who are attracted to the same sex. They need love as Christ Himself loved--that's right, too--not condemnation and punishment from the very people who *should* love them.

Read "God Loveth His Children," people. Affirmation is RIGHT--as far as THIS goes.

I didn't take the time to read everyones comments because that will do no good. People have to realize you are responsible for your own actions. You CANNOT blame the church for people committing suicide. I personally think and believe being gay is wrong. You have to live with that decision and you alone are responsible for what happens to you. any one can handle anything that is given to them according to the scriptures ie the bible for those who don't remember.

Grow up people and take responsibility.

Micah Bisson stated "Affirmation leaders believe the LDS leaders have contributed to these tragedies by the way they talk about and to gay people."

And I believe that Affirmation leaders and members have contributed to these tragedies by the way they prey on the emotions of those struggling with same sex attraction. Not only that but advocates of same sex marriage tell young children its okay to be gay yet they know deep inside that it isn't okay. This creates an emotional and mental crisis which leads to suicide.

They don't take their lives because of what they have been taught or for fear of being disowned by their families. They are forced to choose between their faith, and knowledge that its a sin and those who are telling them its okay to be gay.

To think that those saying it's wrong are causing them to commit suicide ignores the truth that it's those telling them that their daily struggles are meaningless, and that there is no hope of ever doing the right thing since they were born that way who are killing them. Bisson should be ashamed of himself his hateful comments since they will probably cause many suicides.

re Happiness is derived, not from submitting to those tendencies that our inner self tells us to avoid, but from rising above those tendencies.

Given that the church has been wrong on many things in the past, and has had to update or backtrack,

Isn't it a little much to expect that just because the current doctrine is to live unfulfilled, to follow this?

Besides how does one rise above this, its been tried and unsuccessfully I might add.

How happy can one be happy living a life of lonelyness anyway?

If this is what your compass says then so be it, but I seriously doubt this, I believe you are trusting what others have told you, and given their track record, you ought to take this with a grain of salt.

If Grimble | 4:42 p.m. is correct, read his latest post for the latest back tracking.

You take it at face value that living the lifestyle is damaging. It doesn't have to be anymore than living a hetrosexual lifestyle has to be damaging.

The real damage is living an entire life of unfulfillment.

Have you reasoned this through or are you just believing at face value what others have told you?

If you are, then consider that Grimble | 4:42 p.m. says the LDS church has flipflopped on a previous position.

What if in 40 years there is another flipflop and it turns out it was never wrong in the first place, what will all the people who lived unfulfilled lives or lives filled with guilt think then?

I hope LDS IS NOT a church who approved the same sex relationship.I am CATHOLIC and i am proud to be one.BE FIRM LDS!!!

Would this have even been printed in the Deseret News if it had been titled: Promiscuous Mormons appeal for Higher Recognition?

Ask a gay person campaigning for the right marry what they think of polygamy and you'll usually get a "NO WAY! THAT'S WRONG!" answer. But why? Not that I want or advocate plural marriage, but the point is that this isn't about marriage for ALL, it's about special rights for some. The LDS church has BTDT when it comes to "unusual" marriages. We gave in to the law and those who opposed plural marriage.

We HAVE equal rights. I can't marry a woman either. Everyone is in the same boat when it comes to the right to marry. But now, some want a SPECIAL right. Next up will be polygamy - mark my words. The FLDS will beat the doors of the courts down for the same "special rights". Then who will be next? NAMBLA? They believe children can choose to be sexual, the will then fight for the right to marry children.

Slippery Slope...

Grimble--I feel sorry for your children who are receiving conflicting messages about what is right and good. Do you at least tell them about the consequences of such a lifestyle? It sounds to me like you are taking them to church where they learn one thing, then showing them later (at your friends' house) why none of their church lessons matter.

Jury,

"If the LDS church were to stay out of my bedroom and find something of interest in their own, there would be no need for any of these activities in regards to ones sexuality.. or lack thereof."

The Church doesn't care what you do in your bedroom unless you are a member of the Church who commits a sin and then you either repent or can find another Church to belong to. If you aren't a member of the Church the Church doesn't care what you do in your bedroom or your house.

Marriage isn't in your bedroom instead it's public. It's telling children, and people who struggle to live their lives according to their own consciences that its okay to be gay and then they take their own lives.

"Please, make sure your house is in order, before making judgement upon the homes of others, wether it be in the name of your GOD or any other diety one chooses to utilize, in order to place yourself above that of the masses.

This has nothing to do with deity so stop using "God or Gods" as a weapon. It's you who seeks to place yourself above the masses.

I've heard that same old lie for years. "The Church now recognizes Gays". Not true. Do you watch Conference? Read the Ensign? Have you read the Proclamation on the Family? Have you read the application to BYU? Just follow the Prophet and see what happens.

What an incredible mess of opinions, anger, and distortion!

I just wanted to comment about the guy who said that the LDS church's doctrine would shift on this issue like it did on the preisthood being given to all worthy males. I don't think so. And this is why:

The act of homosexuality is a grave sin in the eyes of God, and has been from biblical times up until the present day. On the other hand there is nothing sinful in the least bit about being born with different colored skin. That is a BIG difference. The priesthood not being granted to all people is nothing new if you have read the scriptures. Throughout much of the bible only the levites held the priesthood. In fact, this may be the first dispensation in the history of the world where all men have had the wonderful blessing of holding the priesthood. Please remember that the LDS church is a CHURCH, guided by God. Not a social organization, guided by Men.

If you want to understand LDS people the scriptures are a great place to start.

It has been said: I'm very tolerant of gays, but you all want special privileges to promotoe your lifestyle. Enough already! If you don't like this church, go to Community of Christ (Reorganized LDS); they'll welcome you with open arms. Why do you want to push your lifestyle on a church that is totally against it?

God Hates shrimp, crab, lobster, clams, mussels; All these foods are an abomination before the Lord. The bible says so!

Leviticus 11: 9-10 (King James Version)
9 These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat.

10 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:

I am calling all Christians to meet for a protest at Red Lobster every Friday (fish day) at noon. We must rid our community of these sinners who go against nature and God's will. It is clear, He Has Spoken! Don't believe me? Look what happened to the shrimp gumbo capital of the world a few years ago - New Orleans. We called it Katrina. What city will feel His wrath next?

To everyone who thinks they can reduce this issue by comparing it to adultery or promiscuousness, it's a very different thing to be born with a sex drive that is as strong as everyone else's but has a different object. An adulterer leaves the spouse he or she has made covenants with and has sex with another. That's a very different thing than being told you can NEVER have sex. A sex drive is not something you turn on and off. So you are condemning people to lonely, distracted lives.

What's more, those who are adulterers and promiscuous are never denied marriage and forgiveness.

Finally, a lot of non-Mormon people will be discriminated against when the church inserts itself into public policy and the law. The church has distorted Boy Scouting and brought disgrace and turmoil to it. It must not be allowed to do the same to CA's constitution.

If you weren't living in your little LDS bubbles you'd catch on.