Better late than never.

And again we see that the worst abuses are apparently carried out by the FLDS leadership itself. If society does not protect these children, no one will.

There is some problems.
However grabbing at straws and making statements on court records is not evidence, and presenting it to the Judge ia a crime being commited
We have a MAJOR problem with others deciding how we live our lives
I mind my own business, and I have neighboers with other ideas.
They appear not to have any business of their own, So want to tend to mine.
Their kids are un ruley and hateful.
Dads and Moms take no action to teach the 10 Commandments on how to live life correctly
First not bareing false witness against thy Neighbor.
Texas has a problem with Waco and now the FLDS.
No doubt the FLDS would have been burned out as well
War tanks are not to be used against the American PUBLIC no matter who they are.
My heart is with the PEOPLE
Not the State of Texas
We have Federal laws here being violated my State Government
First being CIVIL RIGHTS
The State of Utah is especially IGNORANT of the CIVIL LIBERTIES that are guarenteed by the U.S. Government.
State law does not over ride Federal law

FLDS, your religion teaches that young teens should be thrown out of the house before they are able to take care of themselves to fend for themselves. So they either have to starve and be exposed to the elements or rely on other peoples charity.

If this one thing doesn't indicate to you your religion is not of God, what would?

For your own sake, do a re-assessment. It seems to me you are all in a prison of the mind, unable to break free.

This is another move by the state to get evidence on the parents. If you carefully read the affidavits, you'll see that there is not a scintilla of court-worthy evidence there. So they'll torture the kids again until someone breaks.

The gap between state requirements of ALL citizens & a group convinced that they are God-led will NEVER be reconciled. However, "No Doubt" (previous msg), NO country can stand idly by & allow harm to be done to innocent people, especilly children. In case you dont UNDERSTAND it, it is HARMFUL to a child to be PUSHED into sex, pregnancy, birth and the heavy responsibilities of child-rearing BEFORE they even have a chance to MATURE! It`s a sure-fire way to keep that girl-child towing the line for LIFE, but has actually stolen her LIFE! Can you understand that?
These generations of FLDS women have been reared to BELIEVE that they do what the "leader" and husband TELL THEM TO DO or they WILL spend eternity in HELL!
It is sickening. If you don`t mind that being done to young girls, keep on wishing that everyone would just leave each other alone. I happen to REJOICE in the fact that some people DO care about what is done to children in my world. There`s a limit to how much one can abuse the innocent! GO, Texas! UTAH certainly is pathetic at it!

I have just finished reading Carolyn Jessop's book "Escape" She was married to Merill Jessop.
If everything in Carolyn's book is true. It isn't the women and children who need to be taken out of the compound, it is all the men. It will never stop until all the self profest "prophet's and God's" are taken and hung up by whatever they have to hang them up with.
If you are interested in learning more about the FLDS. Escape is a great book.

At least Texas seems to be playing by the rules this time.

I'm all in favor of enforcing the law.

Isn't it odd that delivering a baby for an underaged girl is evidence of being an unfit "caregiver" but giving an abortion to an underaged girl is a government service? I just can't get over the irony of that part of the article.

If only our society would be as outraged at all of the social ills that we accept or embrace as they are about the peculiarities of the FLDS. Just think of how much we could improve ourselves.

The 12 year old bride is not in emminant danger ........Jeffs is in Jail. The children of Merril are not in danger......he is sipping drinks in Mexico.

They are rounding up the children of the women who did not sign parenting plans, on the advice of their lawyers.

Sign the plan..they take the kids.....don't sign the plan they take the kids.

More game playing by CPS. The FLDS has been set up in a game that they are ment to lose by Carolyn and the gossip mongers. CPS refered to Carolyn in one of the affidavits and Carolyn has never been t the ranch. They refered to the Doctors multiple "marraiges" when those unions occured before the 2005 Texas laws.

The accusations are derived from interogations resulting from a raid based on false allegations......this farce continues.

The article says the they want to take the children out because the mothers won't stay from law breakers? Why aren't they rounding up the "law breakers" then....wouldn't that solve the issue instead of making the kids wards of the state?

Reading these comments you can get a good look at who's who. Their comments and minds never change.
It is sad............Very sad.

Finally, CPS is finding a way to protect these children. Funny how the FLDS has not commented on the arrests or this development. They know they are guilty. A religion that defends child abuse as a lifestyle set out by "Heavenly Father" doesn't belong in Texas, Utah, or this country. I don't understand people making comments defending these law breaking, child abusers, or the mothers who refuse to do what is right by these children and get them out of the houses where the child abusers live. There is no difference between this and welfare mothers living with abusive boyfriends. In both situations, the state would come in and say "If you choose your boyfriend, you are choosing to have your children removed." It seems that some people making comments would cheer the state for removing children from welfare moms, yet they can't get it in their heads these FLDS women are putting their children in danger, too.

Come on, guys! This isn't about abortion. I appreciate your attempt to misdirect everyone and create a distraction, but this is about the crimes of the FLDS leadership--not abortion.

Both Carolyn Jessop and Elissa Wall have written excellent books and I would recommend them to everyone. I highly doubt that the FLDS have read them even though they keep claiming that they are both liars. I doubt they would be allowed to get near those books--especially the women. I have also read and heard from other FLDS over the years who have escaped. They all tell the same story.

This is an abusive, sick culture lead by men with big egos and out-of-control sex drive. It's what happens to people when they don't have the humility and faith to follow a TRUE prophet and go off on their own to pursue their own interests. These men rule by fear and abuse.

Warren Jeffs has admitted publicly that he is a FALSE Prophet. Those other men who have also committed crimes must be brought to justice and prevented from claiming any more victims.

P.S. It's easy to discern the FLDS bloggers--lousy spelling and grammar. SAD!

Still in shock!???? I am still in shock that their are people that STILL READ THAT BOOK LIKE AS IF IT IS THE GOSPEL TRUTH!!!! Get a life!!! I PERSONALLY WORKED WITH CAROLYN JESSOP AND THAT BOOK IS A BUNCH OF LIES PUT OUT BY A JEALOUS HEART!!!! That book is no more true than Santa Claus! Come on people, don't show your own stupidity by taking in all those lies by Carolyn, Elissa, Dan Fischer, Flora Jessop!!! Get the real story through truth will prevail. I personally know Aunt Martha, Dr. Barlow, Allen Keate, MERILL JESSOP, and all the others. I have known them since I was young and I KNOW THAT CAROLYN AND THOSE OTHERS ARE LYING THROUGH THEIR TEETH!!! BRAINWASHED???? YOU SAY I'M BRAINWASHED???? THE FLDS HAVE NOT BRAINWASHED ANYONE!!THEY-TEACH THROUGH LOVE, AND I DON'T MEAN THE L-O-V-E THAT THE WICKED WORLD PERSEIVES AS SUCH!!!! THEY TEACH THROUGH THE LOVE OF OUR FATHER IN HEAVEN. THEY ARE KIND. YOU ALL SAW IT DURING THE RAID. NOW YOU ARE LETTING WHAT "SOMEONE" WITH A VINDETA LEAD YOU BY THE NOSE TO HATRED!!!! WHY????

To: "To Still in Shock:" You don't seriously believe that ANYONE believes a word you are saying do you? I don't believe you have read either one of these books, so I don't think you even know what's in them.

To everyone else: Here is a good example of someone who is brainwashed and doesn't have a clue. The FLDS also have no problem lying through their teeth if it helps their cause. Just as they have no problem committing all kinds of fraud against the taxpayers. It's really sad.

You know what? The people in Germany believed all the propoganda they were taught by the Nazis, too. They were VERY SINCERE about the things they believed. It took a major catastrophe to get them to see the truth. They were devastated when they realized how they have been manipulated and lied to.

Elissa Wall is a legitimate victim and I hope her lawsuit is successful. I hope she gets all the assets of the FLDS Church. It might take a major catastrophe, but if the whole thing finally crashes, MAYBE these people will have a chance to see the truth and have real lives.

Oh yea and I am sure they will get a fair hearing on September 25th from Judge Walther the judge that approved the taking of over 450 children into custody.
Texas need to wake up and quit trying to trump up charges against a mostly hardworking honest loving group of people.
I am tired of hearing the CPS knows better how to raise these children than their own parents.I agree with still in shocks latest post.

It's interesting to see people support one alternative lifestyle but condemn another. The same people defending polygamy are the same people that blast homosexuality. I have no problem with someone marrying multiple LEGAL ADULTS OF 18 YEARS OF AGE OR OLDER, regardless of gender. Why? Because it's not my business what consenting adults do. And it's not yours either.

That being said, if they're boning 14 year olds, someone needs to go to prison.

this is an attempt on the part of cps to make the children talk. they have no legally obtained evidence of any wrong doing. they need to leave these people alone

You sound like an angry FLDS to me! I can tell by your comments that you are hurting in some way. Brainwashed?

You seem to be a defender of the FLDS, You say that CAROLYN JESSOP's book is lies. Is it also lies that the FLDS throw young teen boys out to fend for themselves or get charity from others?

If not, and you are FLDS, why don't you work to change your degenerate FLDS culture, rather than point the finger at those who are exposing it?

to "Re: Still in Shock 9:15am"

Did you really say "the FLDS have not brainwashed anyone"?? Then why do you still have followers?

There is no way to control multiple wives and dozens of children in a repressive household without abusing them (and brainwashing is abuse). Especially when the penalty for failure is the banishment of the father and reassignment of the family. It's impossible.

Your culture breeds abuse. You might think it's just normal, since FLDS has been doing it for a hundred years, but that's because YOU'VE BEEN BRAINWASHED INTO BELIEVING IT'S NOT ABUSE. What you see as a healthy "disciplinarian" upbringing is in fact abuse, since the father will do anything to keep his family in line rather than face banishment.

If the penalty for failure to keep your family in line wasn't forfeiture of everything the father holds dear, then perhaps the abuse would be lessened. But the fact is abuse is MANDATORY in your environment.

So stop insulting our intelligence, ditch your current leadership, and get back to worshiping God. You have the Helsinki syndrome and you don't even know it.

I feel sorry for you. These people are lying and it's not just the leadership. I saw interviews with Rulon and Lorene Keate that are on the MSNBC web site. One on 4/28 on NBC's Dateline and one on 5/12 on NBC's Today Show. In the 4/28 interview Mrs. Keate said they miss their daughter. In the 5/12 interview, Mr. Keate said they don't have a daughter. Lying on national television for all the world to see. Bravo to Carolyn Jessop!

CPS should cease being concerned about these children. They have already done those poor children enough damage to last the rest of their lives.

The 12 yr old bride is not in imminent danger because Jeffs is in jail? You really said that? How naive.

She's been trained to believe that the only way to get to heaven is to take whatever husband the prophet assigns, at whatever age he decides. And she's not in danger? Geez - even her children are in danger, and they're not even born yet.

Most of the practices of FLDS have nothing to do with religion. They have to do with control. Maybe you're ok with that, but I'm not. You may think its fine for people to be trained to break laws and raised from birth to be repressed and manipulated, but you are in the minority (and it's a very confused minority).

I do not know if you are a man, women or child in the FLDS, but I do know that your "YELLING" your comments does not show love and peace. Love and peace has to go beyond the pastel dresses and the button up shirts, it has to go to all religions and black and white, that is what the Savior taught. Your group teaches hate towards those outside of your group, this is not love, it is hate, look at the teachings of the Savior, the parable of the Good Samaritan, His asking His Father to forgive those that wronged him. I just don't think that the FLDS shows that kind of spirit.

You guys need to stop referring to "still in shock" with your comments. It's the re: still in shock, at 9:15am who is so angry about all the other comments and is against Carolyn Jessop's book.

To "Re: Still in shock!":

I have not read Carolyn Jessup's book and don't intend to while these proceedings are going on. I am doing this to avoid Carolyn’s conflict of interest (her book) and her possible agenda. (Basically, I don’t intend on attacking straw man arguments against the FLDS.) In the end however, the investigations that are going on will either vindicate or discredit Carolyn Jessup's claims. Be warned, however, that if the criminal proceedings end up corroborating what Carolyn Jessup says, then I will start reading her book with credulity and you will have lost your religion’s credibility with me. Otherwise, I won’t read the book. Fair enough?

Even with my not having been poisoned by Carolyn’s account, however, you are not helping your case with your defense. I have defended your rights, because they are the rights that I would wish for all. That picture of Warren Jeffs and the little girl didn’t exactly endear me to you. I like to think you don’t approve of that sort of thing either. If that is the case, please let us know. I just need to verify that my benefit of the doubt is well placed.

Read the definition of imminent danger........the legal definition.

What counlda woulda shoulda or might happen doesn't play.

The State is attempting to remove the children of men who allegedly witnessed a wedding ceremony.

No emminent danger. The men are in jail or nowhere around the children......no emminent danger.

The church will abide by State laws in future marraiges....the person accused of performing the marraiges is in jail. No emminent danger.

And I thought time travel wasn't possible yet. As I read all the hate mongers posting the same old rhetoric and praising the actions of CPS, it sounds like April again, just after the raid. CPS is no smarter now than they were then, they are just angrier at getting their hand slapped for abusing those children. It seems that many of you are no smarter than you were back in April either. If you want to talk about BRAINWASHING, talk about how about the media brainwashed all of you. This is turning into a learning disability on a national scale. CPS certainly has one.

To "To: Yelling re Stll in Shock" at 11:09. I'm not sure which FLDS you are referring to but I have never heard any of them espouse any degree of "hate" toward outsiders. I agree they have reason to fear outsiders, especially considering how they were treated recently. But, no matter how they were treated, they never lashed back, they never returned the mistreatment, and they forgave their trespassers. As I read it, that is what the Savior taught and I have seen more of it from the FLDS than from many of you in here.

LOL - if they hadn't "approved of that kind of thing", it wouldn't have happened. They might not "like" it, but they certainly were complicit in it. That in itself is very scary for the remaining children, and shows exactly where the parents priorities are....

Alex, if you have a problem with Jeffs kissing a young girl (as we all do), address it to Jeffs, not to the FLDS at large. None of them have to defend themselves as to his actions. You might as well go around asking all Catholics where they stand on the child abuse by their clergy. Do all of them need to say to you they are against it before you give them the benefit of the doubt?

The picture was traumatic to many. It was SUPPOSED to be; that is why CPS released it even though it had nothing to do with the proceedings at hand. It was meant to prejudice people against all of the FLDS. Why so many of you FELL for that is still beyond me. Relevance is part of that issue. Keep the facts straight and apply them to the issues. Use SOUND legal procedures to gain relavent evidence to prosecute actual crimes and the whole world will be behind you. But, no, so many of you resort to innuendo, bloated allegations, and heresay to try these people in your kangaroo courts. All we have so far is accusations of wrongdoing. Let's wait for convictions.

In any action to remove those 8 children from those homes AGAIN, CPS will have to pass the same three tests they failed to pass the first time. They must prove they made every effort to keep the children in their home (there's a joke). They must prove that the children are in imminent danger where they are (wrong again). And finally, they must prove a substantial risk of continuing danger (nope). If the case goes before any other judge than Walthers, CPS will get their hands slapped again. Someone needs to issue a restraining order to prevent the abuse of these children under the color of Texas law. Pursue the criminal cases to their rightful end and leave the children alone. You are punishing mothers for their refusal to allow you to deny them their rights as parents. They are handling it FAR better than I would in their shoes; if CPS had done any of that to my family, I would be in jail right now for murder. NO ONE hurts my children and lives; I don't care if it is Joe-blow the rag man or the Government. We need some well-placed Righteous Indignation.

The children suffer from the stupidity of their parents.

Someone needs to rescue those flds kids from that hell hole.

Grandpa Phil:

"Alex, if you have a problem with Jeffs kissing a young girl (as we all do), address it to Jeffs, not to the FLDS at large. None of them have to defend themselves as to his actions. "

That's fair enough. Look, I am not interested in bringing any religious organization down--never have been. I don't do that. I am addressing a perception problem that the FLDS has. Obviously, that photo does not convict the FLDS. Frankly, the photo wouldn't have been a concern for me if there weren't already 5 standing indictments for FLDS leadership. Meanwhile, I am going to give the FLDS members a pass on this. We'll see what happens in court.

Amen to Cats!! I believe the women who had enough sense and courage to escape! I am worried sick about the poor little girls who are talked into early marriage with old men to satisfy the men's weakness for power and sex. Then they have the audacity to say this is God's will. It is evil. FLDS men & mothers of these girls: you can't hide what you are and what you do. If you want to hide away and break the polygamy law, fine...just wait until these girls are 18 or over.

wow - grandpa - you polished up your blinders, eh? Talk about time travel.... The more evidence that piles up, the more you defend them. But you're eloquent about it, so we will assume you are the sole college graduate in the FLDS. Well done.

Now tell me - why would we address an issue like Jeffs kissing that child and not address it to the general FLDS population? Or better yet, how could we NOT demand that the general FLDS population answer for it? They were all complicit in it. You act like Jeffs acted alone!! HE'S THEIR PROPHET! They have pictures of him on their walls. They will do anything he tells them to do because he "speaks for God's will".

Jeffs IS the FLDS, and represents all of his followers. The ONLY innocents are the children. And if you think they will receive less abuse in the FLDS than they would in state care, you haven't thought it through very well.

And you talk about what you would do to CPS if they came for your children, but are mute on what you'd do if Jeffs told your daughter to wed an old man. LOL.

not sure how you can actually call them a religious organization.... they seem pretty un-religious to me... I'm still trying to figure out how being a prophet is handed down from father to son, or better yet how anyone could believe it... sounds more like a dictatorship.

RC, you know darn well that I am not FLDS and wouldn't give a diddly SQUAT if Jeffs told me to do anything.

What "evidence" is there? You talk about evidence "piling up" but all I see is more of the same 'ole rhetoric and accusations that bit the dust last time.

And, RC, you have been adament in your accusations that no FLDS have the ability to go to college in spite of all the FLDS people who have said otherwise. I went to college; it was a military academy - West Point, and I actually took a course in my Firstie year called Constitutional Law. They drilled into us things like ethics and integrity and moral standards that people like you make a mockery of by the processes being leveled against the FLDS. I don't agree with their religious beliefs but I do believe they have the right to believe them and to raise their children with the same freedoms I have to raise mine. You don't think their children are free enough and they disagree by saying your freedoms would lead their children down the same road that much of our societies children have gone DOWN.

I wrote my comments in bold because for some reason people do not listen to the soft spoken. They condemn anything that is not to their way of thinking. The FLDS do not go out and try to convert you to their way of life. But for some reason you all think that they are terrible people because they do not live by what you think they should. You judge, condemn and hang them in your mind. Why???? Because you do not have the deserning to tell a lier when they are just trying to sell books. Yes, I knew Elissa also. She would lie to her mother over and over about not being out after the town curfew. She conceived by a man (Not her husband) before she was eighteen. Are they going after him??? No. They feel he is OK because he is like they are. I see whole families going out on the street and between the 12 to 15 of them, there is about 2 yards of clothing!! They can not keep their private parts from the gaze of others if they wanted to. Talk about imorality!! Clean-up-your-own-lives-first-then-cast-the-stone!!

realitycheck:

"They might not "like" it, but they certainly were complicit in it. "

Perhaps. While I have not ruled out complicity, there is still a fine line between accusing someone of complicity and unjustifiably smearing a group for the actions of one. I don't know that I have enough to throw down the gauntlet on that one. That's just me.

Look, I don't have a dog in this hunt. I only come with concerns for CPS handling of the case and that the FLDS rights are maintained. I'm not going to be a part of an online mob though.

As an aside, you might get less defensive responses from the FLDS if you reason more than you attack. When people are in a corner, they fight to the death. It is human nature. If you are going to convince them to your way of thinking, you can be tough in your approach, but you need to talk to them like a real person, without alienation or condescension.

"re Alex 2:01pm":

"not sure how you can actually call them a religious organization.... they seem pretty un-religious to me... "

I am not trying to bring down beliefs or their religious organization. I want to bring down criminals, whether they be religious or not. You are right though. There is definitely nothing religious about sexual abuse.

You see, it does not matter what the FLDS say, you people will try them, judge and condemn them in your mind. You see, that IS why the Anti-FLDS books sell so well. Because people are going to believe what they want to believe--And the diet for the American people has been the blood and guts all over the road Hollywood stories!!! So that is what they want to hear. That is what they want to see--AND IT DOES NOT MATTER IF THE FLDS ARE INNOCENT OR NOT!! AS LONG AS THEY GET THEIR THRILLING STORY!!There is a saying my grandfather used to say. "Convince a person against his will, and he will be of the same oppinion still."

Does anyone wonder why the FLDS have not spoken before now???? And now, they only do so to try to help themselves because they are up against the biggest opinionated bigots there are--The American Government!!!

GP(!)- I actually don't know that you aren't FLDS, other than you saying so, and you sound like it so maybe you're not being truthful. (Honesty isn't an FLDS strong suit.)

Not sure why you're telling your life story - if you aren't FLDS as you say, then it's irrelevant.

You're right - I don't think the children have enough freedom and opportunity, but that's just my opinion.

What ISN'T my opinion is that there is abuse within the FLDS. You might not want to admit it, but it's self-evident. Perhaps if you have 2 wives and 4 kids you can repress them without too much abuse, but if you get 3 wives and dozens of children living in the same house, and your penalty for failure is banishment, then those wives and children WILL be abused. No way around it.

And the evidence is the records of underage marriages condoned by FLDS parents. You say you don't care what Jeffs says, but ALL THE REST OF FLDS DOES. They will do ANYTHING HE SAYS. Have you figured out the implications of that on the children? Do you REALLY believe that's a healthy environment? Good luck with that.

Re Yelling: Go ahead and yell. You have something to be yelling about. The State of Texas continues to persecute the Church based on the gossip of the book peddlers. One CPS affadavit quotes Carolyn Jessop.......Carolyn was never at the ranch.

The motives of CPS are easy to see.....twist every situation to show guilt and make up the rest to force flds to abandon their "belief system".

How many lies were told about the flds before the raid......during the raid and after the raid. The raid was based on a lie yet the caller hasn't been charged.

CPS motives are clear......keepo SCREAMING....you have something to scream about.

It seems with the national reading level average being at fourth grade, there are a lot of people who are wanting to condemn the FLDS and say they can't read or spell!!! Hmmmmmm. I have seen a lot of hate posts on this board that are definitely Anti-FLDS with the worst spelling.

It really does not matter the innocence of these people----bottom line is the world will condemn what they do not understand.

re Alex 3:06pm

while I respect your position of concern for CPS' handling of the case, I have only concerns for the children. I couldn't care less about CPS, Texas, or the FLDS. Only in the way it impacts children do I care at all, but there I care perhaps way more than I should.

And I am certainly not trying to convince anyone, especially the FLDS, to my way of thinking. That would be way too easy, and I think they are way beyond that. But that doesn't mean I'm not going to give my opinion.... and call a spade a spade. (I believe that's an FLDS saying.)

You want FLDS rights to be "maintained". I just don't happen to believe they have the right to repress, abuse, abandon, and rape their children.

And in my opinion, the parents of all those underage brides should go to jail for child endangerment. And anyone that knew about it should go to jail for not reporting it. That's about the only way to remove the issue of complicity. (Not sure if we have enough jail cells for that...)

Saying someone (Jeffs) told them to do it is no defense.

Despite the wealth of misrepresentations by the FLDS on this thread, I am pressed for time and will only address a major one. The absence of some known or alleged child abusers from the FLDS enclaves does not protect past, current or future victims. Girls and women are passed among the elite with the approval of Warren Jeffs or Merril Jessop. Both still have the authority to continue that reprehensible practice.

RERE Still shocked: Thank goodness someone has remembered the wise words of your Grandfather.

My Grandpa had a saying as well. There really aren't that many horses in texas.....jus a lot of horses asses. And Texas Government tops the US government any day in the bigot department.

Remember.....everything is bigger in texas

"Re: Still Shocked | 3:22 p.m.":

"That is what they want to see--AND IT DOES NOT MATTER IF THE FLDS ARE INNOCENT OR NOT!! AS LONG AS THEY GET THEIR THRILLING STORY!! "

That is why you should not try to convince those who have already decided, but rather those who are still listening. Those who have already convicted you are mostly trying to get a rise out of you. They are trying to create a self-fulfilling prophesy by getting you to act upset. It is perfect bait. You need to be disciplined though and not get distracted.