FLDS are not Mormons, just like Mormons are not Christians. The LDS church has put out videos to show they are different from the FLDS, just like the Christian churches put out videos to show that the Mormons are not like them.

I'm living in Houston and it's amazing how many people that know I was LDS think I'm part of the FLDS group. Kinda funny when people ask what I think about what is happening in a reserved manner, figuring that I am going to take offense. Unfortunately, it shows how inaccurate the media can be, and what a poor job the general membership of the church is doing to establish between friends and neighbors their LDS beliefs. People really have no idea who we are and what we believe.

Though the LDS church has nothing to do with the practice of plural marriage, it does nevertheless BELIEVE in the institution of plural marriage. That's where the bug-a-boo takes place.

It's kinda like talking one way out of one side of the mouth and then speaking the other way from the other side of the mouth.

This is what is so damn confusing to the world at large about the Mormons concerning plural marriage. Now add the history and all and yes, it gets extremely confusing and convoluted.

I'm not so sure the LDS church's PR machine can get them out of this one. Just too much history and the consequences of history concerning this one.

Good luck!

First off, let me say that I love and admire the LDS church. However, the LDS church is far more similar to the FLDS church than it is to other Christian churches. Yet the LDS church fights to distance itself from any association from the FLDS church while continually arguing that it is indeed a christian church. The LDS claim to be Christian because they beleive in Jesus Christ. Rightly so. How is it then that they can say that another church that beleives in Joseph Smith, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, the Pearl of Great Price, eternal marriage, and other similar docrtines may not be referred to as a mormon church? Furthermore, it is deceiving to say that the LDS church has nothing to do with polygamy when it instituted the practice and allows men to marry a second wife after the first passes away without a sealing cancellation. Polygamy was started by the LDS church and will be practiced in heaven. I love the church, but I think it shouldn't twists facts and hint that it may use legal action against the media outlets. May all those with Mormon heritage be called Mormons.

Mormons are Christians. Christians believe in Christ. The name of our church is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. We most definately are Christians.

Aloha from Hawaii

This is a welcome and needed clarification from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Many in the world do not know even the most simple basic beliefs of the LDS Church nor any of its history.

As a practicing Anglican when the LDS missionaries came to my door in 1969, I had never before that even heard of the LDS Church or the Book of Mormon.

Until this raid in Texas I had never heard of FLDS, nor had I any concept of the extent of the practice of Polygamy today... I had thought there were just one or two men, whose stories I had seen in the papers, who had entered into Polygamy because of wanting to have more than one wife, and that somehow a few women had been talked into going along with it.

I spent most of last year travelling America, visited all of the LDS Historic Sites, spending lots of time in each area. A fortnight in Nauvoo. A month at Far West/ Independence Missouri. Rented a home at Park City for three months. Explored Utah... so my lack of knowledge of this situation was not because of isolation in Australia :-))

"FLDS are not Mormons, just like Mormons are not Christians."

Mormons ARE certainly Christians. Hence...The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

Where do people get off on spewing this falsehood? Do you like to stir up trouble and spread false rumors about the Church?

I mean, Pastors and people who are ignorant about the Church spread and believe this nonsense.

Unless you are a member of the Church and unless you understand what you are saying...please refrain.

We believe that Jesus Christ is the Savior of the world. We believe that He came to earth born of the Virgin Mary, that He grew and went forth spreading His Gospel. We believe he died on the cross for the sins of the world, that he rose on the third day.

What we believe is that we are Christians. We follow His teachings. We believe in the Great Commandment. We believe that we should treat others as we would like to be treated.

Other Churches, Pastors, and other so called Christians who go about spreading false rumors about The LDS church or any other Church should not call themselves Christians. This is NOT what Christ taught his disciples to do.

*shakes head at Gilly's comment*

If by Christian you mean belief in the 3rd century three-in-one god yes, Mormon's are not Christian. But then by the same definition neither was Peter, Paul, John or any of the first century believers.

One's "Christianess" is best defined by how they treat their fellow man.

Perhaps you should go out and practice being a Christian rather than critizing others efforts?

It would be interesting to collect lists of beliefs of each group and compare them side by side.

It's going to be kind of confusing this year on Pioneer day to convince people of the differences. CNN will probably be here with cameras to document those differences.

Maybe another church video will help. Better run it by the PR department first though.

Unfortunately, Gilly is also very misinformed. MORMONS ARE CHRISTIANS! Christ is the center of our existence!

However, using the same justification as the FLDS (and other apostate groups) are using, I guess, as a Mormon, I could go around claiming that I am a Catholic since both Mormons and Catholics are Christians. Of course, that would be absurd. Mormons are not Catholics. On top of that, "Mormon" is a term that is registered and tradmarked to the LDS Church. For any other Church or people to use that name is IDENTITY THEFT.

What's really sad is the way the FLDS delude themselves in to believing that they are following Joseph Smith. Joseph Smith told the people to "stay with the main body of the Church. That is where the truth will be." He also understood the principle of ongoing revelation.

Unfortunately some men with big egos, out-of-control sex drive and need for power didn't have the humility to accept it when the Lord commanded the practice of polygamy should STOP. That's where "the work" now called the FLDS came from.

Very sad.

Gilly,
If you define Christians, as only those group of people that are "not affiliated" or belong to a specific group, that you have a point. By doing this, however, you do not include most of the traditional protestant churches, and the catholic church.

That is unfair.

If you define Christians, as anyone who believes and follows Jesus Christ, you are completely wrong, and know it.

Maybe we should change the name of the Book of Mormon to The Record of the Nephites. Then everyone will call us Nephites and we will no longer be associated with Polygamy ;-D

Funnily enough, one of the splinter groups has published the Book of Mormon as The Record of the Nephites, and another The Stick of Joseph.

My experience is that in the mind of people (at least in the Netherlands and South Africa) Mormon = Polygamy, so maybe the Polygamist Mormon groups should be left with the name.

No doubt you’re another Mormon haters that jumps out of bed every morning and rushes to the desnews just hoping to find an article that mentions the Church, a member who did something wrong, BYU or any other remotely related topic connect to the Church so you can spew your senseless hatred for the Church. If that is all you’ve got in life I guess we must learn to live with it but at least develop an argument that makes a little sense.

Comparing the Church’s efforts to distinguish from the FLDS to the debate of Mormons being Christian is weak. The two religions are two defined groups with specific beliefs. Both openly agree on their differences. The issue is with the uninformed thinking they are the same because others (you) knowingly lie to promote your hate-filled agenda. The “Are Mormons Christian” debate is about how you define the general term. Even those in the debate agree that the term Christian is a big umbrella covering many religions regardless of whether you believe Mormons are covered or not.

Try harder next time.

All so serious... "Uh Gilly...you're wrong"

You seen to have missed that Gilly's remarks were tongue in cheek - pointing out the inconsistancy and amusement while watching the LDS church making non-legitimacy claim for the FLDS, while complaining that some protestant churches make the same claim about the LDS church.

I don't think your argument holds. If somebody is informed enough to know that Mormons believe in, but don't currently practice polygamy, wouldn't that person also be informed enough to know that the FLDS sect of a few thousand people that has been isolated in the deserts of UT/ AZ and now TX for the last 100 years is not the same as the 5 million or so LDS people covering the rest of UT and across the country? Nope. This is just a matter of people believing any negative thing they hear about Mormons, either because they don’t care enough to look beyond the first thing they were told, or because they are actively promoting and believing the lie to serve their agenda.

I am not sure why everyone is trying to distinguish the fact that WE mormons don't practice a form of polgamy. Last time I checked the priesthood manual regarding sealings and consulted with gramps who lost his first wife. Polgamy is going strong in the "LDS" temples. It seems that we are trying to say on thing while doing another. Seems like this PR thing could backfire if news media groups really started doing their investigative work. Wonder if it could lead to a change of doctrine?

I wish the Mormon Cult-ure, would just continue in their breeding of their multiple children, and STOP in their lame attempts, to push their weirdo faith into the main stream religions. No matter how much spin, lack of published facts, they put into their own biased web-pages, any non-mormon already knows the truth about Mormons, FLDS, and the entire state of Utah Cult-ure.

FLDS is the LDS religion of the 1830s through about 1920.

When asked questions about Mormons being Christians, and why the big uproar about it, my explanation is this:
The LDS Church is, indeed, Christian. We are not, however, Protestant. We did not come out of the Protestant Reformation began in Europe. We are wholly, completely, entirely Christian.
We are followers of the ancient Church as our Heavenly Father established it. The Protestant Reformation did a very big disservice to "Christianity" when they fought to seperate themselves from Catholicism. the "refromed" ideas of the 3rd centuries, (Christmas, the Trinity, etc), seperated the main chruch from the ancient church. We seek to follow what our Heavenly Father intended. The GOSPEL is true.

For your information.... Even the Bible has plural marriage. Anyway How many times does the LDS Church have to say " We belive in marriage between ONE Man and ONE Woman" Period!

Once again, mainstream Christians accuse Mormons of condemning polygamy while believing that it was once sanctioned by God--ignoring the fact that all Christians believe in a God who allowed Noah, Abraham, Jacob, and other prophets to have multiple wives, and who in fact was the one who gave David his multiple wives (2 Sam. 12:7-8).

The entire Judeo-Christian-Muslim tradition inherits a religious history that includes polygamy.

I deal with stupid people all the time. In today's world, if you want to remain uninformed and stupid, you can. Just don't do any personal research and believe everything you hear on tv, radio, and the internet.

I also with "journalists" on tv, radio, and newpapers in my job. They are, by far, the laziest, most ignorant people I've ever known (sorry, Des. News). They want me to write all their articles for them, they can't get quotes right to save their little souls, and they can't understand the most basic principles.

So if you want to believe the crap put out by media, those with an ax to grind, or anyone but the actual source, go ahead. Moron.

Hey ldshoustonian, might try using some of those pass-along cards. Everyone in my office knows that my church is not the same as those from Eldurado.

Moniker:

Glad I'm not the only one who noticed this!

Like it or not, LDS will always be viewed as a weird sex cult from those outside the Zion Curtain.

Gilly, the fact that the LDS Church is not like some of the "Christian" Churches, is actually a GOOD thing. This is not about FLDS or LDS doctrine so lets not turn this into a gainsayers convention. Don't y'all EVER get tired of flailing at the breaking waves? Are exercices in futility so rewarding that they are the only exercise you get? A little manure around the base of the tree only helps the tree to grow. You spite yourselves by this hopeless rhetoric. No one listens when ignorance and bigotry are the main story line (except other ignorant bigots of course). Find something productive to do.

I am LDS and I do believe Mormons are Christians, I was simply trying to point out that we are doing to the FLDS the same thing that is done to us: i.e. decide which terms can be used to describe certain beliefs and groups. Although I may not agree with certain
aspects if the FLDS faith, they certainly believe in the Book if Mormon. You say the LDS are Christians because we believe in Christ; I agree. I also say the FLDS are Mormon because the believe in the Book of Mormon. I think it is extremely arrogant to tell a people what words they can and can't refer to themselves by.

If the Church is so threatened by this issue, then why do the FLDS stories appear in detail on the front page of the D-News?

I swear--we must be the most misunderstood people on the face of the earth. So much misinformation and falsehood is spread about us. "JAY" just spewed a few more nasty and inaccurate remarks and this ridiculous person called "PROVO" just made another comment that the FLDS is the LDS religion prior to 1920. It's just so sad and frustrating that so many misinformed and nasty people keep perpetuating all this dishonesty.

Funny Jay. I think you will find that those "main stream religions" form the river feeding Niagra Falls. There is no shame in not being in that "main stream". The LDS Church is second only to the Baptist Church in numbers in the US and I understand the LDS numbers are going up while the Baptist numbers are going down. I'm thinking the LDS form their own river and its flowing to a far better destination than the "main stream".

ooh ouch Jay, you really hurt our feelings

Ok, this is my second post saying the same thing (I think my first post was censored!)
.
I think this is an honest statement and would appreciate any comments from LDS.
.
I understand that lds has a modern day prophet- the same as flds. That's what FLDS was criticized for- if Jeffs said he received revelation; it became the gospel and the people did it. Isn't LDS the same?
.

That sounds a little dangerous to me if it's true..Hebrews 1:1,2

Christian Science is a name of a church,but they are more like the cereal grapenuts,the cereal is not really grapes or nuts. Christian Science is not really Christian and all of thier members are not scientist. They have a Christ of their prophet Mary B Eddy.

This is an outrage. That half of the people on this website decide to bash the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, the FLDS, and everyone else is just a lovely tribute to humanity, don't you think? Thank the Lord that we have so many people willing to reach out and accept others' beliefs. [Please note the sarcasm]

I am a "Mormon" but I would gladly stretch out my hand and offer it to any Christian, Jew, Muslim, Bhuddist, Agnostic, Atheist or any member of any belief system whether he called me a Christian or not. I believe I am a Christian because He taught us to LOVE on another, not hate, and you should all be ashamed at the hateful comments you write in derision and mocking of my Church and any other. I don't believe in any other churches, but that doesn't make their people less human. We are all members of the same race and should stop the bickering. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is simply trying to clear up a miscommunication. Is that so hard for us to understand? I will just say this...it shouldn't be ruining your day.

Yours in friendship.

PEOPLE!!!! LDS people especially. Just because Gilly threw down the gauntlet, doesn't mean y'all have to come to the defense of the Church. Gilly cannot hurt the Church. Neither can the legions of gainsayers he represents. Just picture Gilly standing out in the middle of the Missouri River holding up his arms to turn it from its deceed course. THAT is how significant Gilly is and how effective he will be. Don't waste your time disputing his ignorance; it is what he wants. Let him flail against the incoming waves all he wants; eventually he will either get tired of wasting his time or he will seek out the Truth and stop fighting against God. A little manure around the base of the tree only helps the tree to grow.

**sigh**

This could be an opportunity for the Church to reach out to people, to make peace with its past, and show why many find the Mormon religion rewarding and satisfying.

Instead they're turning things over to the lawyers who are making veiled threats of legal action if media coverage doesn't improve. I doubt very seriously that media outlets will be impressed by this but they will be angered by it. Do you really want to get in an adversarial relationship with the press?

The problem seems to be magnified by the fact that Mormons are war loving Republicans who claim Christianity by name yet preach love your neighbour (apparantley their neighbours are not Iraqi's)
The other problem seems to stem from the concept of loving your neigbour also means seeking their incarceration if they bring the name of the church in disrepute. Do you really believe God really cares if his disobedient children defame the church. Let God be the judge. Its apparent church leaders are failing in being that example of Love your neighbour, even if they are FLDS. ..These days are much like the days of Alma, invite the Vice president and hail him as great as your prophet. Hypocrites we are that carry a name yet we defame

If the mormon church is christian and joseph smith was a true prophet then why does the salt lake LDS church cower away from the law of God revealed to joseph smith that plural marriage is commandment as written in the mormon doctrine of the D&C 132. Why doesn't the mormon church own up to their believe in polygamy and admit that they do not practice it today only because it is against man's law and the consequence of man's judgement.

Hey dude, thanks for that incredible show of prejudice and intolerance. It's so wonderful to know that people can still spew out comments with no real intelligent thought behind them to see if they can get a rise out of others. Way to represent.

I think it's funny that you stereotype like that. Many non-mormons whom you claim already know the 'truth' have never even heard of mormons. Makes sense, "We've never heard about these people, but we sure know the TRUTH about them!" And many of the people in the 'entire state of Utah cult-ure' are not only nonmembers, but active anti-mormons.

I'm a member, and I'm HAPPY! =D I'm probably way more happy than most teenagers in America can say they are. Before I started living by what this church teaches, I was extremely suicidal and depressed. What you say doesn't really bother me, because you're clearly uninformed and biased. If you don't want this 'weirdo faith'... don't take it! We're not trying to rack up numbers, it's not a race to see who can become biggest. We're trying to spread the happiness that we've found.

Have a nice day. =)

LDS are Christians who believe in be moral cleanliness. FLDS men are not moral nor clean... BIG DIFFERENCE! FLDS are a cult with men who commit adultery. LDS men remain true, faithful and are devout husbands and support their families. FLDS and LDS are nothing alike whatsoever!!! LDS frown on adultery!

Dear Jay/Gil, etc.:

I'm so sorry for your ill will towards Christian Mormons. I have lived the faith all of my adult life and have tried my best to live a good Christian life. Every belief and practice of the LDS, "Mormon" doctrine can be supported in the Old and New testament and of course the book of mormon. I know this because I have read all of the standard works. It's not a question of whether Pologamy is doctrine, we already know there were times God commanded his people to accept the practice. (Remember Father Abraham was commanded to take Hagar, a second wife.) However, this issue is about ABUSE of children,(therefore, we want to distance ourselves from FLDS) and 2nd, Mormons believe in obeying the laws of the land. Our doctrine can be supported and as Daniel saw in vision, the stone is rolling forth to fill the whole world!

You must not get out of provo much. The lds church is not second in numbers in the US. In fact it is far far down the list. You and your brothren are less then 2% of the population while for example the Catholic church is 23%. Quite a disparity but you guys keep on making yourselves fell better as the only people you trying to convince is yourselves. Nobody really cares about you nor the mormon jesus. I just read these for the entertainment value.

Nice attempt at the use of euphuisms to get a point across, but here in the "big city" we just tell it like it is. We both know that this comes down to difference in doctrine, otherwise the church would not have produced these videos of so-called "differences" between the faith.

Dagnabit, I was a hoping someone wouls take about
something really important, such as Warren Jeffs
famous, red rocket powered underpants.
Golly gee folks,remember what's important!

Oh Jay you're so clever. I wish I was as smart as you.

This issue in the Church is much like the illegal immigration issue. As has been stated the LDS Church believes in plural marriage, they just don't practice it and excommunicate those that do practice it. As for illegal immigration the Church claims "neutrality" but in fact support it by, "don't ask don't tell."

The 12th Article of Faith says that we believe "in honoring and sustaining the law," which members have been carefully taught. But, like the FLDS and polygamy the LDS Church has chosen to ignore this principle when related illegal immigration. When asked in an interview, if they interviewee is honest with their fellow man, because of "don't ask don't tell," illegal aliens are permitted to answer "yes," even though almost all of them are committing ID theft or fraud, both felonies. Being guilty of a felony will normally bring on church discipline.

There seems to be a double standard here, one for those legally in the United States and one for those here illegally. Presently the LDS Church seems to be getting it both ways, not wanting to offend the illegal aliens (mostly of the Hispanic ethnic origin) and the faithful but confused members.

The mormon jesus is very proud of you all; now as for Jesus the Christ, well not so much!

Hey folks, You need to watch for deceptive FLDS. They like to confuse everyone into thinking the LDS are part of their cult. We all know FLDS are nothing like LDS in anyway shape or form, nor anything like the true LDS church. The FLDS have tried to bring all their evil deeds to our door steps, and would like to lower the LDS church to their lowlife, life style. They are Satan's tool against the true LDS church. We are a moral church and FLDS are pure old adulterers!

FLDS ARE Mormons, same as the LDS and Community of Christ (formerly the RLDS), not to mention all the other breakaway movements like the Strangites.

They all follow the same nonsense taught by Joseph Smith and all believe in his fairytale book, the Book of Mormon.

And for the LDS to say they don't practice polygamy (when they are the ones who started it in the first place) is truly disingenuous.

The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.