Reader comments: Illegal immigration not simply a legal problem

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jr | 7:02 a.m. June 2, 2008
You can't prosper with slave wages which illegal immigration has brought about. You can't prosper if the illegals refuse to integrate into the society the are adopting. They are bringing down the living standards to meet what they left behind at the same time costing the legal taxpayer a whole lot in medical and educational fields. I am a legal immigrant and had to pay my way and prove I could read write and speak english and that I was not taking an Americans job out from under them. I had to have a sponsor so that I would not take tax payers moneys etc
"What would you recommend?" | 7:08 a.m. June 2, 2008
Glad you asked!

High among our values is respect for and obedience to the law of the land.
That value is also the foundation for a stable and just society.

The flood of illegal aliens brazenly flout our laws.

They flee countries where lawlwssnwss, corruption and injustice are endemic.
Intentionally or not, they bring those values with them when they enter our country illegally and live outside the law once they arrive.

Importing third world corruption values will not benefit our nation.

Those who find a lack of human rights and opportunity in their homeland should stay and work to make their homes better rather than breaking our laws and looting our social services.

"What would you recommend?"

Enforce the laws of the land.
jackie84604 | 7:18 a.m. June 2, 2008
Our country is great because we believe in the rule of law. If we need more workers, we should encourage LEGAL immigration. Supporting illegal immigration is like opposing the rule of law. Almost everyone in the world wants to come to American. We should have our choice and raise quotas for LEGAL immigration throughout the world. I am hispanic and my grandparents came here LEGALLY. Let's support LEGAL immigration.
Comments continue below
Orem Parent | 8:00 a.m. June 2, 2008
For me it isn't an economic problem I'm worried about. In fact I support the families coming here for a better life. I'd like to see it happen legally but I can't fault a mom and dad trying to make a better life for their kids.

What I worry about is what is happening to our schools and society. It seems a large amount of our local crime comes from two sources. People hooked on drugs trying to get a quick fix or immigrants looking for some fast money.

Schools in West Orem and West Provo are not speaking English as their primary language. I love the dual immersion schools but hope they will actually be DUAL language.

Respect for laws and respect for each other can go a long way on both sides of this issue.
Bryan Kingsford | 8:10 a.m. June 2, 2008
I thought your article was very good and that the Sutherland Insititute made an excellent case for seeing beyond the typical enforcement only thinking.

While we wait for the federal government to develop a reasonable immigration policy, Utah should welcome people of good will, willing to contribute to society.
YouGoFirst | 8:11 a.m. June 2, 2008
I really like what Glenn Beck had to say on this same subject. He made a great arguement that todays illegal immigration is nearly equal to slavery.

The unfortunate thing is that Congress is allowing this to happen because of not renewing laws that have expired. There were laws that helped seasonal workers enter the US and work.

We need to stop illegal immigration, not because of US businesses and trying to enforce laws, but to stop slavery.
McMorty | 10:19 a.m. June 2, 2008
We have had 20+ years of non enforcement of U.S. immigration laws. Now it is only fair for 20+ years of strict enforcement of those laws. Employers should be required to verify citizenship or pay a steep price and what respect can a person have for a country where businesses can pick and choose which rules they want to play by. It is foolish to ignor the law or forgive law breakers because it theoretically helps the economy. If a business can't make it through legal means then they no longer need to be in business because that is how economics are supposed to work.
Redshirt | 12:18 p.m. June 2, 2008
The author is yet another open borders fool/propagandist heard from.
Brittanicus | 1:31 p.m. June 2, 2008
Critics of any enforcement are the 'Special Interest entities, such as the the business CARTELS, organized religion and many of the extremist groups like La Raza (the race). They all have an adverse interest in keeping the 'Status Quo' such as cheap labor, a valueless addition to America when we should be creating an open door for Highly skilled scientists, engineers and hands-on Ph.d. We already have millions of uneducated, low wage a Americans who need jobs. But predator businesses can exploit foreign nationals with no papers, and the threat of deportation as they wish. Immigration & Customs Enforcement sweeps are a provision enacted in the 1986 Simpson/Mazzoli bill, when the first AMNESTY became law.

We must insist Democrats endorse the Federal SAVE ACT(H.R.4088), by phoning (2022243121) There leaders are keeping it dormant, waiting for the new presidents AMNESTY.
unskilled workers | 2:01 p.m. June 2, 2008
With a dropout rate as high as we have it is hard to imagine that we would have to import unskilled labor.
veedub | 2:08 p.m. June 2, 2008
I too have sympathy for those hard-working men and women who want to escape the mind-numbing poverty caused by the corrupt Mexican government, yet who end up here receiving near-slave wages from greedy companies.

I say we should enforce our borders with walls and more manpower and then increase LEGAL immigration for all Mexicans who want to escape that oppressive regime, and who can qualify as healthy non-criminals, and who are willing to learn English and function as integrated members of American society.

We should offer free no-questions-asked transportation to the Mexican border for all those who are here who want it, so they could apply for legal immigrant status. Already many illegals are returning to Mexico due to the more stringent employment requirements in some states. This would increase the exodus and LEGAL reentry.

How about those recommendations, Mr. Florez?
YouGoFirst | 2:12 p.m. June 2, 2008
I have a better solution that takes care of several problems all at once.

Since there are jobs that Americans don't want to do, I think I have a way of motivating them.

What you do is take the welfare recipiants, ship them and their families to an area that "depends" on cheap labor. You then charge the company/farm/factory $0.25/hr to have these people work there. Meanwhile they live in government provided apartments and receive welfare checks, the same as they currently receive. Then, you limit the amount of time that they can stay in the apartments and be employed by the company while on welfare. All positions would be limited to entry level positions with limited supervisory responsibility. Once their time is up, or if their employer finds them to be valuable, they can be hired using their new job skills and proof of ability to work.

Then, their kids would be taken care of by other welfare recipiants who are supervised by full time government employees that monitor the workers to ensure the safety of the kids.

Once you get that sytem up and running, the illegal immigrants would run for home because they can't compete.
Benjamin | 2:38 p.m. June 2, 2008
the thing that gets me about the "laws of the land" crowd is that they think all laws are morally equivalent. It's like the illegal immigration laws were part of the Ten Commandments, written by the Hand of God, and unquestionable obedience is a spiritual imperative. Sure the immigration laws are the "laws of the land." But if all infractions of the law are morally equivalent, speeding would be just as evil as murder. That kind of thinking makes murderers of us all.

Why do the laws exist? Not because God wrote them out, or because there is some great disembodied ethic we must all follow. The laws exist for our good. If a law ceases to benefit the people, it needs be changed. Whether a law should be changed, therefore, is a balance of competing interests with the ultimate goal of benefitting society the most, not a test of our obsequious compliance to the law.

We need to frame this debate on what is best for society, not whether illegal immigrants are criminals. Clearly the system has failed, so let's take a look at it. The immigrants aren't the problem, the failure of the system is the problem.
re "What would you recommend?" | 4:49 p.m. June 2, 2008
RE "What would you recommend?" | 7:08 a.m.

"The flood of illegal aliens brazenly flout our laws".

I whole heartedly agree that just because most of land the US has is as a result of broken treaties or taking land in wars of agression, this is no reason to not insist that others obey our law.

For example, if I steal your car, you can not come to my house and steal it back. Two wrongs do not make a right.
Mountain our of Mole hill | 4:54 p.m. June 2, 2008
Immigration is not even a felony. Whats the big deal? Its the free market. They are willing to come here and work to make our economy stronger, why not let them?
Anonymous | 5:58 p.m. June 2, 2008
I believe the apostle Paul had it right when he observed that the love of money is the root of all evil. It is greed or the love of money that fuels illegal immigration on the part of both the unscrupulous employers who knowingly hire illegal aliens and on the part of the illegal aliens themselves. It is greed on the part of our incompetent and/or downright dishonest politicians who have deliberately looked the other way as this has gone on for decades, especially since 1986 when we were promised that there would be “no more illegal immigration.”

The answer is not to abandon our laws but to abide by and enforce them as they are there to protect us. Our laws are based on Judeo-Christian principles, so when our nation’s laws are broken so are God’s laws, i.e., thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not bear false witness, etc. When the rule of law is abandoned, civilizations fall. It’s that simple. Look at what happened in New Orleans after Katrina when lawlessness prevailed.

All of us, including illegal aliens, should seriously consider what will happen to this country if everyone becomes a selfish and greedy scofflaw.
4:49pm get with the program | 6:27 p.m. June 2, 2008
don't let your bleeding heart make a mess on the carpet

and go back to history 101, you slept thru a lot

Providence gave this great land to America

Otherwise California and Texas would be third world stink holes
where have you been, lately? | 6:49 p.m. June 2, 2008
California and Texas ARE third world stink holes!
wrz | 7:50 p.m. June 2, 2008
"Immigration is not even a felony. Whats the big deal? Its the free market. They are willing to come here and work to make our economy stronger, why not let them?"

Watch "immigration gumballs" on YouTube for your answer.
Lainie | 9:43 p.m. June 13, 2008
Florida along with California and Texas.

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